felt wicked good in the water today.

800 w/u
8 x 75 on 1:20 back/breast/free
8 x 150on 2:15 odds free, evens back/breast/back alt free/breast/free
3 x 300 on 4:10 desc
200 c/d

Is this your last MP run before the Marathon? I'm curious because my runs this week are different - they are about 7:45 pace and my goal MP is 7:15. Is yours to get conditioned on what your pace should be/feel like on Sunday?

that's right. Very little mileage this week, Thur. and Sat. off. 3 miles on Fri. There seems to be many different theories, I'm sure your plan will work just fine:) I'm just doing whatever Karen does, she's my new coach:)

That's a scary thought. Ginger, did I forget to mention I have no real plan?

throw time out the window. Just run hard and you'll get the time you want.

But listen to Karen, she's the coach.

...when I said have fun, I meant relaxing and not worrying about a 3:45 this time around. :) But thats OK. I hope you have a wonderful race. I'll be cheering for you guys from SWH!

Suzanne. I'm fine with whatever happens. No excuses, if I run well that's great and if I don't the reason is because I wasn't in shape to do it, so what. There's always going to be another marathon, and I'm always going to try to run 3:45.

I think you should go for 3:45 too! You just ran 20 miles under 9 min. pace and you're a great hill runner. We have to remember that we all have different agendas.

if I offended you in any way. I just worry that the pressure to try and run a 3:45 with every marathon is actually what is preventing you from doing it. But I'm new at this marathon thing, what do I know?! I just know that I care about you a great deal, and will be proud of you whether you run 3:45 or 6 hours. And you are right- we all have different agendas, and I totally respect yours.

As for me, I swore I would run MDI for fun. I am just now starting to recover emotionally from so much that has happened in our family until just very recently. I've tried not to talk about it too much here, because I know I have a tendency to say too much and let it all hang out. But the past two months or so have been VERY hard ones for me. I am looking forward to the crowds, the kids passing out water, seeing my friends and family cheer me on...I'm just not feeling like trying to run that hard this time. My biggest goal is that I would like to PR on this course, which means better than 4:31. Other than that, its finish and fun.

But just wait till Spring. Then I'll be READY. :)

just letting you know what my plan is and I respect your plan too.

you should take Robin's advice ( you know when we were leaving the Belgrade 4.5 mile race and we were in the car at the 1/4 mile mark near the stop sign )!!!!!!!
Sorry i remember things like that ( it is just me being me )
the price for the room is the same either way so get the most value
you can
that would be my plan
after all Robin did run just well at Boston

You never know until you try!

I've gotten 5+ pages of thesis written, and lots of physics done. I like school, it makes me feel brilliant.

on the thesis - I just got to talk to Dara Torres strength/conditioning/nutrition coach - fascinating - we hit on everything from stretching to nutrition specifics to adrenal fatigue (most athletes suffer from this, speaking of sleep)... he was SO helpful.

Are you telling me that I have sleep problems because my adrenal glands are fatigued due to running?

Can't be, running is good for me. I'm sticking with the standard excuses; kids, work, money, less daylight, etc...:)

symptoms: trouble falling asleep, waking up many times during the night, tired in the morning and often early afternoon. Circles under eyes... if you are training more than 10 hours a week, chances are you have some adrenal fatigue, according to this strength and conditioning coach (Andy O'Brien - in addition to working with Dara Torres, he is in charge of the Florida Panthers s+c training).

Caused by - hormones - exercises mixes up all the hormones in your body to some degree, most notably cortisol, a stress hormone. Cortisol levels go way up (want to know if you're truly overtrained? blood test, see if cortisol levels are abnormal) and this causes the "insomnia" - then it drops, causing fatigue.

He named an herbal remedy that supposedly helps. I have not had time to look into this - part of my job is to sort out what people BELIEVE from the fact. Play the skeptic. But they're doing some really cool stuff with nutrient profiling from blood, saliva, hair, urine - using that to tailor all the nutrition stuff. They're even looking at getting the right ratio of lipids... 1:1:1 poly mono saturated, or something like that. But really a lot with micronutrients, easy to get the macronutrients you need when you're eating adequate calories.

Pay attention to how you feel after the marathon - long endurance events spike cortisol like crazy. I remember after my first half ironman, I was exhausted, but just could not sleep - it took a week for my body to settle out. The past few that hasn't been as much of an issue, my training load was higher, I recovered much faster...

Adrenal fatigue is not something I know a ton about, I know lots about overtraining in general, will be interesting to see what more I can dig up on it.

those same symptoms in the first paragraph can be caused by a TODDLER!!! :)

but rather has the same response to all. Good joke about the toddler but you're also RIGHT. Stress from school, work, family, training - same cortisol response.

Or it can just be the toddler that keeps waking you up.

The body works together with the mind. It is the organism that reacts differently to stress.
Acute stress reaction is quite different from chronic stress.
A recognized threat will bring about responses differently from a unique one.
The internal organic stresses, from post traumatic stress or Obsessive compulsive disorder for example, can generate among the most severe responses, often from simple seemingly nonthreatening situations.

While it's basically true the same amount of stress hormone release will bring about the same response, it is the context and mental state that modulates the release and the rapidity of recovery back to balance or homeostasis.

I can't nap after a long run. I think I might quit running.

I'd miss you desperately Ginger. : )

For a blissful, wonderful stretch of years I was able to train over ten hours a week without shortchanging other aspects of my life. It was a lot of fun, and I was sleeping better then than any other time in my life. I'm sure Mr O'Brien knows what he's talking about, but I'm happy I didn't experience it. Exercise has always been a stress remover for me.

Unless, of course, someone is telling me to start training for a trail ultramarathon... that might get stressful. Julie, when is that event in Hell, Indiana again??

"Welcome to the dark side of running.
Weak, wimpy, treadmill running pansies who are afraid to get some dirt in their shorts need not apply.
Expect to be scratched, muddied and bruised by the beauty of this unpolished gem.

Expect to get out near the edge where life is full color.

Expect a day that leaves you knowing you are fully alive, awake and crankin' on all cylinders.

Expect insanity, stupidity and nirvana."

Doesn't this description on their website sound like fun? Just my kind of event!!! Next September ~ let's GO GO GO!!!!! Any other takers???? :)

http://www.danceswithdirt.com/

with college swimming.

When I was doing 18-20 hrs a week this summer to get ready for Moosey I had trouble sleeping. It only worries me when I have other signs of overtraining - like if I am trying to take a nap and my heart rate is purring along way too fast, then I know to back off.

I was trying to be funny too. I had not heard of adrenal fatigue so I googled it. I have most of those symptoms. It's funny that my kids have the sleep symptoms discribed above, trouble getting to sleep and trouble getting up in the morning.:) I'm pretty sure they don't have adrenal fatigue.

In my case in the past couple of weeks the adrenal thing may play a part. It definately is not the cause or if treated would not be the cure. It's just a modifiable variable in the complex system we humans are. Running helps me deal with stressors in my system even if it may have fatigued my adrenal glands. Now i'm interested to see if taper time helps.

Thanks for the exercise physiology (or pathophysiology) info. I always like to learn new things I can stress about (just kidding:)).

In my opinion, the people who post on this board exercise more than the average fit person. Still, I doubt many of us exercise more than 10 hours per week. In general, I exercise about 6-7 hours per week. It is only during the peak weeks of marathon training that I approach 9 or 9.5 hours per week. I’m sure Andy O'Brian was thinking of professional athletes when he was talking about adrenal fatigue.

That said, I do have trouble sleeping after a long run. I always blame the extra caffeine I get from all the Gu :)

I haven't worked as much as you, but I am still excited to work WAY less this winter...like only 13 hours a week! Yahoooo....more time to play with Delaney and RUN!!!

I already asked my training partner (aka known as Mother In Law Who Does All The Babysitting) if she is ready for me to train hard for a spring marathon and she said yes. Yippy skippy!

Yup, feeling OK is better than feeling bad!