The marathon long run
Posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 11:39:41:
The Marathon Long Run: How I Prescribe Long Runs for Maximum Success
by Greg McMillan, M.S.
So, what's your take on it? Hasn't the LSD/fat-burning thing been...
Posted by Bruce on September 02, 2004 at 12:17:10:
In Reply to: The marathon long run posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 11:39:41:
thrown out the window and been proven as a myth? No question, it burns calories, but as far as teaching the body to burn fat, isn't that a bunch of hoky? I'm not being a wise-guy. I really don't know the answer.
I think if I had it to do it all over again, and was physically able, I'd give a variation of this a try: Every 3rd day, do a 20 -30 miler -- interval/fartlek style. Lots of medium to hard running interspersed with walking/easy running until I completed the distance. 20 on the 1st day. 30 on the 3rd day and 25 on the 6th day and then repeat the process. On the easy days, I'd run 1 - 5 miles and call it good -- make the hard days hard and the easy days easy thing again.
My take
Posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 12:45:35:
In Reply to: So, what's your take on it? Hasn't the LSD/fat-burning thing been... posted by Bruce on September 02, 2004 at 12:17:10:
I like to always think that variation in ones training program is the best thing to do.
The way I like to do my long runs is to start slow for a couple miles(about 6:30) then gradually pick up the pace until I'm running around 5:00-5:20 for the last couple miles. try running a 5 minute mile after you've run 20 miles.
so to answer your question
Posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 12:53:53:
In Reply to: My take posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 12:45:35:
I think long slow training is only good if your going to be running ultra's or are going to be spending longer than 4 hours racing. i've done a few 20+ milers at a 7-8 minute pace and wow, it really kicks my butt. I don't have any fat to begin with, so why would I want to burn it. But saying that, I also ran some slow long runs before my marathons this year as well as some fast ones. I think Physically, the long slow runs are easier to recover from, as it usually takes me 3 weeks to recover from a long faster one. But who knows, it will always be up to debate
My Take
Posted by g on September 02, 2004 at 13:36:28:
In Reply to: so to answer your question posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 12:53:53:
Nobody knows your body like yourself...all the best training regimes in the world should in my opinion be used as a very rough guide....We all know where are individual weaknesses lay. If you want to be faster, train faster, if you want to get more endurance, go longer, if hills are hard for you, go find one and run up and down the damn thing, if you are mentally weak,(drink beer)Kidding people kidding! you get my drift..this running, its not rocket science....
G, I agree...
Posted by Chris on September 02, 2004 at 14:40:44:
In Reply to: My Take posted by g on September 02, 2004 at 13:36:28:
Although sometimes it feels like rocket science! As a "newbie" to running I have found that if you don't like doing something then most likely it is ultra good for you!! My new thing is 7 bridges, I hate hills, but I have run 7B for two weeks straight, at this point 7B & E is just like going and doing Eagle, your body adjusts and starts to get used to it, I am actually really enjoying 7B now and plan to keep running, screw hills! What is hard is that newer runners such as myself just don't know their body, I am still learning so much, that is when rocket science comes into play!
Re: The marathon long run
Posted by Dr Dave on September 03, 2004 at 07:34:54:
In Reply to: The marathon long run posted by JC on September 02, 2004 at 11:39:41:
I've come to see the benefits of periodization. Training with long slow efforts early in your season, to build a bigger engine, a Cris Carmicheal, Lance Armstrong's coach advises, then sets you up for long hard training leading
up to you event.
In triathlon, the Germans seem to have had the cycling edge for some time. They traditionally over the winter and early spring only do easy and mod. rides of longer distances. Then they hammer leading up to racing and peak season. Of course they are swimming and running too.
I tend to alternate harder and easier long runs, weekly leading up to a Marathon, mainly to allow for recovery.
Dr Dave
20M (more)
Posted by Harry on September 12, 2004 at 07:05:24:
In Reply to: Sun, 9/12: Daily Log posted by Editor on September 12, 2004 at 01:35:35:
I've been doing the same 20 mile run from my house now a bunch of times and I've always wanted to break 8 min/mile. Finally did it in 2:38 yesterday. It's hilly, I hope hillier than the mdi course. There's a hill at mile 17 that the local cross country team has measured and marked on the road, and I also have been trying to break 8 minutes for that mile, and managed it in 7:58, which is also great for me psychologically. If anyone has comments on my strategy for preparing for the mdi marathon I welcome the advice. My mileage has gone down a little, from in the 50's per week in august, to in the 40's this month, whereas everyone else seems to be getting their highest mileage in this month, including Judson, who is off the charts. But I am getting a lot of personal best times for the runs I've been doing...then I need a little more rest, which I am taking. My plan is to go relatively easy this week, and then run the local 30k in fairfield on sunday, then start a taper either after that,or the following week. Any comments welcome.
Only an opinion, Harry, but at this point just as long as you're getting...
Posted by Bruce on September 12, 2004 at 08:15:04:
In Reply to: 20M (more) posted by Harry on September 12, 2004 at 07:05:24:
in a long run every 7 - 10 days, you're all set. Running long is the key. If you did a 20 miler once a week and took the rest of the week off, it'd surprise you how well you'd do.
Another humble opinion
Posted by Chris G. on September 12, 2004 at 10:18:08:
In Reply to: 20M (more) posted by Harry on September 12, 2004 at 07:05:24:
: Harry, not that I have a huge amount of experience or knowledge about these things, but it seems to me that you are well on your way to attaining your goal pace here at MDI. You have logged a bunch of good 20-ish runs, and 8 minute miles up ANY hill are hard to do. I don't recall what your recent half-marathon time was, but I do remember that it was pretty impressive. You've got a good solid base, and a few weeks of quality training time left, including the 30k next week. Just stay focused and you will do great! We are all looking forward to meeting you!
Just an older more recent runner's opinion
Posted by Steve on September 12, 2004 at 16:34:53:
In Reply to: 20M (more) posted by Harry on September 12, 2004 at 07:05:24:
Harry,
Looks to me like you're right in line for goal or exceeding goal!
I can only speak of personal experience ... I don't think I ever did over 45 miles per week until I was running for over two years and had 4 marathons behind me. Before my first (MDI - I) I only did three long runs (two 18 and one 20 & 3:33). In those first couple years, my body couldn't do much more than 40-45 Miles per week (at the ripe old age of 43 or so, now 45 & turning 46 in Nov.). I had many injuries along the way ... the worst being ITB which lasted over a year. Now, I've been consistently running around or over 40 miles per week with stretching every day and some strengthenin' (Nautilas or hills) two to three times per week. I now can do 60 miles per week without injury. It definitely takes time for us not so young.
As Bruce said the long runs are most important and I believe tapering is even just as important in those last 3 weeks. Keep it up but listen to your body. Bests!
Not exactly to disagree with Bruce, but....
Posted by Brian on September 12, 2004 at 16:58:44:
In Reply to: Only an opinion, Harry, but at this point just as long as you're getting... posted by Bruce on September 12, 2004 at 08:15:04:
I follow Jack Daniels' rule that the week's longest run shouldn't be more than 25% of your weekly mileage. That means I've got to be running 80mpw before I start doing 20 mile runs.
Not to suggest that 20 mile runs are unnecessary for marathon training, but I'm one of those who believes that overall mileage is at least as important to good training. For me, running light weekly mileage and then going for three hours on Sunday is a reliable recipe for injury.
In the last six weeks of my marathon training, I'd keep the emphasis on quality over quantity, doing a higher percentage of tempo-paced runs at about 30 sec. per mile faster than marathon pace. By the way, last fall for MDI I never ran longer than 18, although I did quite a few 18s which included at least six miles of tempo pace.
